Can someone explain economics to me?

[D--]

OK, this is mostly for the pro-capitalist / pro-fake democracy / "America-is-the-greatest-country-in-the-history-of-the-universe" fans in the forum. It's a question I've been struggling with for four months.

Why is it that food is 6 or more times cheaper in China than the USA?

China has 10% the arable land of the USA. Likewise, 40% less area capable of being used for grazing animals.

The USA has 20% the population of China. On top of that, its farm and produce industry is run almost entirely by machinery--meaning there are hardly any human laborers requiring wages. China, on the other hand, still depends almost entirely on manual labor.

Now given China is capable of producing less food, producing food in China has a higher production cost, and with 5 times the population it has five times the demand, how is it that 8 lbs. of potatos costs $0.20 US in China and $12.00 US in the USA? Likewise, bean sprouts are $0.08 per kilogram in China and $2 per kilogram in the USA.

This goes accross the board.

I can get a bag of flour larger than a sackfull of three dead babies for $0.40 here, where a bag smaller than one dead baby is $1.49 in the USA--if you buy the cheapest. Let's not even get into the cost difference for rice.

Even products made in North America are sold cheaper here than in the USA. A kilogram of red delicious apples is $2.10 US here, where it would be $3 - $4 US in the states. A fifth of Kahlua made in Mexico costs $10 US here, where it's $17 US in most of the states.

How in the bloody fuck is this possible?

Something seems very, very wrong.

On a side note, I did an experament for a month. Even in a city like Beijing--the second most expensive place to live in China--it's possible to eat three meals per day for a whole month for less than $12 US the entire period. This means you can eat for $0.40 US per day, and even that is far below what most Chinese factories pay their laborers.

[Tintenfisch]

I can think of a few reasons.

1: we're so far in debt that raising the food price is the one way to possibly help with inflation.

2: inflation

3: we take the most simplest of foods and then cram it filled with whatever additives, PCP's spices we can possibly fill it with.

4: greedy people.

5: America is really nothing but big spenders and high prices only serve to give richmen boners.

6: Nobody has the balls, nor brain to say what you just said so companies can charge as much as they feel like.

7: nobody knows how much food costs in other countries because they're nothing but ignorent xenophobes so they go on thinking they're getting the better end of the stick in the world.

8: the machines require a lot of maintenance So what better way to get money than from the american people.



I want out of this country.

[byuu]

Are you serious?

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the average salary in China is an order of magnitude lower than the average salary in the US.

Of course, that isn't all of the problem. The US has always had its priorities ass backwards. Examples:

1) Taxation on (most) food and clothing in most states is the same as taxation on 50" plasma televisions (yes, some states don't tax food, some states have no sales tax, etc.)

2) Federal + FICA tax is approximately 20% of gross annual income, regardless if ones' salary is $15,000/yr, or $150,000/yr.

3) A 2br apartment is ~$500-$700 in most major cities. At minimum wage, that is the entirity of one's pay ($5.15 * 160 * 0.8 = $659.20)
Now, how would you support a family of 3 on that income? Let's not include food, clothing, medical + dental coverage, emergencies, etc.

4) The medical system, hahah. 2 hours of surgery costs, on average, $24,000 with no medical insurance (and most unskilled jobs offer no medical insurance, or insurance that explicitly excludes anything expensive, regardless of medical necessity). And that doesn't include the overnight hospital stay, consultations prior to surgery, etc.
Even if it takes ten years to get a doctorate to become a surgeon, and considering how complex medicine is, the threat of lawsuits for malpractice, etc. etc... do you really think an hour of their time is worth $12,000?
Or shall I say, 2,330 hours of unskilled labor? 80% of ones' annual net salary?

5) All forms of government assistance will almost immediately deny you unless you're a minority, or a woman with a child. Apparently, no white males ever enter poverty, or need government assistance.

All that said, I can eat for ~$3-5 a day here, assuming a diet of ramen, rice, water and bread. Throw in a fruit or two and a multi-vitamin for good measure. That's less than one hour of work for minimum wage. Now if only I didn't need shelter and a vehicle (hello, mandatory $100/mo car insurance) to survive...

[D--]

Yes, but why would FOREIGN goods be cheaper in China than their own country? That's the one that is extremely puzzling. Importing shit always makes it more expensive.

I also don't see what the average salary should have to do with average food price. In a system that is not broken, the price of food would be the cost of producing that food with a slight profit. I see farmers here with their carts selling on the side of the road for the prices I just mentioned, and like hell they are selling for a loss.

[KaioShin]

Yes, but why would FOREIGN goods be cheaper in China than their own country? That's the one that is extremely puzzling. Importing shit always makes it more expensive.

We have really sick system with rice in the european union. The rice we produce inside the EU is rather expensive, because of the high salaries/taxes and stuff you guys already mentioned. The EU wants to help poorer countries with their economy so they sell them the rice heavily grant-aided cheaply. The companys in europe now don't buy the rice from the farmers here - no, since its so much cheaper they buy back the cheap rice we sold them in the first place >_<

[byuu]

Yes, but why would FOREIGN goods be cheaper in China than their own country?

Because Americans can afford to pay more, and to a lesser extent are stupid enough to do so.
Whereas even at reduced prices in other countries, US companies are still making profits.

Alcohol is an obvious one. States and the US govt. tax the holy living fuck out of alcohol. I don't understand how anyone can become an alcoholic. Not only is the stuff vile, it creates the worst side effects of any drug I've tried, and costs the most, too.

I also don't see what the average salary should have to do with average food price. In a system that is not broken, the price of food would be the cost of producing that food with a slight profit.

In a perfect world, food (and perhaps shelter) would be government subsidized. Taxes on luxuries and the rich would go towards producing food. No, not Doritos and Little Debbies. Rice, bread, poultry, etc.

...of course, that'll never happen. Your analogy is correct for the current market. But in the US, corporations will charge as much as they possibly can. Even in today's world, companies are still constantly busted for colluding to artificially raise prices to fuck consumers as hard as they can.
Look at the price of DVDs. $30 for one shitty Hollywood flick, or $20 for 47 hours worth of video on SEVENTEEN DVDs for Condor Heroes.

[EienNiHen]

Alcohol is an obvious one. States and the US govt. tax the holy living fuck out of alcohol. I don't understand how anyone can become an alcoholic. Not only is the stuff vile, it creates the worst side effects of any drug I've tried, and costs the most, too.

This is a little OT, but thank you!  I'm glad there's someone other than me who thinks that getting drunk is not totally fucking awesome.  When I was 18, I went to a going-away party for a friend, during which he consumed 6 screwdrivers (vodka + orange juice), vomited all over the carpet, and spent the remainder of the evening dry heaving in the bathroom.  It was then and there that I realized that being drunk fucking sucks.  I like the occasional wine cooler or imported beer, but it still baffles me how someone can willingly harm his/her body that way (and even brag about it).  It seems very infantile and bizarre to me.

[byuu]

Most young people don't have a fucking clue how to drink, and try and hammer as much alcohol as they can in as little time as possible. Yes, I did that myself, too. But I caught on pretty quickly. I've only vomited twice from alcohol.
The bragging thing is typical male machoism, which I'll quite simply never understand. I take a lot of flack when I drink typically "feminine" drinks such as daiquiris. I just can't understand why it isn't manly to drink alcohol that doesn't taste like paint thinner (sake, scotch, gin) or dog piss (beer).

Anyway, I'm sorry if I've deceived you, but I'm certainly not innocent as far as drugs go. Although I really only drink alcohol anymore, I'm quite fond of dissociatives and naturally occurring psychedelics (e.g. mushrooms, mimosa hostilis). With confirmed death counts directly caused by these substances that you can count on one hand, I find them to be a hell of a lot safer, cheaper, and more fun than alcohol. Probably still not safe for the body, but eh. I can't say I value my life all that much anyway, hence why I try and escape from it every now and then.

To give an idea of how much I drink, I have four bottles of Smirnoff left from a six-pack I bought nearly two months ago, and ~500mL of a fifth of Rum I bought three months ago. I'll usually tank half to a whole fifth when I do drink to get drunk, due to an absurdly high tolerance I have to all drugs, though.

[Nightcrawler]

I've never vomited from alcohol ever in my life.

I don't really see much point in doing any kind of drugs or drinking.  With that said, I'm not completely anal about the subject and I do engage in a bit of social drinking such as tonight for New Year's Eve, however I won't be drinking enough to make me puke or be sick. That's just plain stupid and a waste of time and life if you ask me.

It's not 'cool' to get drunk and it's not 'cool' to do drugs for the sake of doing them and the slight escape from reality. People need to deal with their problems rather then run away from them via means that can hurt not only themselves, but more importantly other innocent people.

[EienNiHen]

With confirmed death counts directly caused by these substances that you can count on one hand, I find them to be a hell of a lot safer, cheaper, and more fun than alcohol. Probably still not safe for the body, but eh.

I'd say the US is pretty fucked up in the way we look at drugs.  I've never done pot or shrooms, but I honestly don't see why they're so much worse than alcohol.  Marijuana has actually been proven to have some very positive medical uses, and it just seems ridiculous to me not to legalize it.  Er, can you tell I'm a Libertarian?  

Personally, my drug of choice is caffiene.  It's legal, it wakes me the fuck up in the morning, it comes in various delicious beverages, and it gives me a killer buzz.  

Wow, this has gotten way off topic.  Maybe we should just rename this thread "America sucks."  ^^

[byuu]

It's not 'cool' to get drunk and it's not 'cool' to do drugs for the sake of doing them and the slight escape from reality.

I am probably the least 'cool' person alive, so no argument there.
As for the escape, eh. It sure would be nice to be able to solve all of your problems without the help of anything else. For me, I have OCD and my problems tend to dwell incessantly in my head until my anxiety is through the roof. Of course, I can't expect you to understand that, but suffice to say, it isn't fun. And an escape every now and then really adds to one's quality of life.
As far as hurting other people, I guess you're referring to drugs in general. I can't imagine how someone responsible could hurt someone else simply by what they choose to do with their body.

I've never done pot or shrooms, but I honestly don't see why they're so much worse than alcohol.

Likewise. In fact, I've never even taken anything illegal. And to be honest, my main interest in mushrooms is that many people with OCD report that it helps them immensely, since psilocin is an SSRI in itself. And it doesn't come with permanent side effects even years after no longer taking it like pharmaceutical SSRIs such as Effexor and Zoloft. Let's not even get into the cost difference.

Mimosa Hostilis, well... it contains DMT. DMT is a chemical that your brain naturally produces, and that is released at two times in your life: at birth, and at death. You can't not be intrigued by that. I hope to try it one time in my life before I die.

And with alcohol killing countless people every year due to a myriad of health problems, you really have to wonder why it's still legal, while safer alternatives are not. You really, really do.
Stupid people will be stupid, and get behind the wheel of a car intoxicated regardless of what the chemical is. It sucks, but that's life. Stupid people use guns to rob stores, too, but we aren't rushing to ban those. Why? Because the responsible majority use them for their intended purpose.

[Tintenfisch]

I only drank alcohol once in my life at my brothers college party in his friends dorm.  It was a "mind eraser" so I figured can't be that bad.  One drink.  Two minutes later "hold on I gotta go to the bathroom" I walk into the rest room and proceed to vomit everywhere.  The next morning the bathroom was closed down.

The problem with guns and gun bans in america is that it's much much to complicated.  For every gun out there there's another gun just like it.  A gun law will only ban certain types of guns.  Andwe can't just ban guns all together otherwise every gun wielding hotshot will begin rioting and that would be a nasty situation.

And byuu I think I can relate to you on some level of anxeity.  Like you go to say something to somebody and it comes you completely wrong and demonizes you or someone else.  Then you brush it off, but then you keep thinking about it and it just gnaws at your head for a good few years (in some cases).  I just have my anger spot out in some nearby woods.  Luckily I live near a dupster so there are plenty of things to smash with Ol' Burgler beater (my bat).  Usually I feel better after that.

[D--]

I'm perfectly content to just drink a bottle of rum, listen to music, complain a bit, then wake up at noon the next day and go on with life ...

While drinking in ways that can kill myself may be considered irresponsible, even that drunk, my judgement is never impaired enough to do something that could hurt someone else. I have frequently pissed people off with my adamant refusal to drink ANYTHING unless there is a taxi available, or I can crash where I am drinking.

I think the most damaging thing I have ever done while drunk was knocked over a cup.

[DraconicBlessing]

Oh boy. I'm a University Student, and like most Universities that I know of, we have a pretty heavy drinking culture. (In fact, New Zealand youth as a whole has a huge issue with binge-drinking).
As I was staying in a Hall of Residence (think: Dorm), drinking was what we did. Not occasionally. Not just on weekends. More or less every fucking night. I can confidently state that I spent at least half of this year, drinking 6 nights a week. During the heaviest period, I was going through half a one litre bottle of gin each night.

I enjoyed most of it.

And only threw up about twice.

[KaioShin]

I can confidently state that I spent at least half of this year, drinking 6 nights a week. During the heaviest period, I was going through half a one litre bottle of gin each night.

Congratulations for wasting 6 months of your life.