I'm making an RPG

[Lyrael]

hi all,

Was browsing through all of the older posts on the board and saw the discussion about creating RPG's.  I have always wanted to do something like that, but knowing little about coding (more than most of the ppl I hang w/but far less than almost everyone on this board...lol) I knew it was likely nothing more than a passing whistful thought.  Add to that the fact that I can't draw for crap, nor am I a music composer and well, basically ya get the idea...

However, I recently purchased a legal copy of Enterbrain's RPGMaker 2003 (to make myself feel less guilty about using RPGAdvocate's English trans of the same title) and am now off and running on creating my own RPG.  Granted, I know many ppl will likely slam on me - because the game is being created with graphic rips from other games and sites (though many cut and pastes and hand modifications from me), music rips and a design engine that requires little or no coding experience (which to me is wonderful - but most coders/programmers scoff at).

At any rate - all those issues aside, this software does give me a shot at making my dream of making an RPG a possible reality.  And even with all of that "borrowing" from other ppl's work and creativity - creating this RPG is still a whole lot of work and will likely take me awhile - but I'm making slow progress.  And though from the above paragraph I sound pretty talentless/lame - I did discover one thing I think I'm pretty darn spiffy at - writing and creativity - in coming up with original ideas, quests, etc. for my game.

Okay...so the purpose for this really, really long-winded post?  Simply that if anyone's interested, I'd be glad to post updates of my progress, etc. here.  The game is titled "Of the Forest" and if you're interested post here to let me know.

Lyrael

PS: Hope this is okay to post here Nightcrawler - if not, feel free to fold, spindle and mutilate at will...

[TechMaster]

http://qlink.queensu.ca/~3ys3/EBS.zip

Here's a little demo that I made over 6 months ago and the sole purpose of it is to let people look into some of the coding (not THAT complex, but if you just started using RM2k3, it might be able to help understanding switches and variables and such).

Using RM2K3 isn't as hard as actually writing the game from scratch, but knowing how to make a complex system using the basic materials (eg. all those event commands) can still be challenging.  I would suggest you to read over some tutorials on some nice sites about doing some complex stuff if you do plan to make them.

Btw, don't feel too bad if you're using a "Maker Program" to make your game.  Check out the following site.

http://alicuu.fc2web.com/ch_scwu_main_frame.htm

That's the official site for SCWU, a fighter game made using Enterbrain's Fighter Maker (dunno what "version" it is).  Considering it's a freeware, and was made using a "Maker Program", it's done really well.  Some of the voices in the game are not rips (which a lot of these kind of games use) but they got someone who is willing to voice act the parts. (and it doesn't sound bad at all)

Basically, what I mean is, even with RM2K3 not comparable or as flexable with raw coding, you can still make a good game.  So keep it up and don't get discouraged.

[Lyrael]

Thanks so much for your demo download - I just grabbed it a few minutes ago, so haven't tried it yet - but I'm sure any examples are/will be greatly appreciated!

And thanks for the kind words about using a gamemaker. Maybe as I get more completed, you'd like to test the game for me and give me some honest feedback?  (Well, honest but not brutal   )

I'll post some progress notes here if Nightcrawler doesn't shoot me for it. LOL!

ttfn, Lyrael

[honookatana]

I think it's better to make a fresh and interesting game with a maker than code up a boring and uninspired one. Keep at it.

[Nightcrawler]

Never completely rule out coding your own.  You can learn if you want to.  No one is born knowing how to code.  It is an aquired trait and anyone can learn it if they set their mind to it.  Don't defeat yourself before you start.

As far as using an RPG maker.  Only real problem I see with that is your game will come out very generic like no matter how wonderful your story is.  That will usually keep it from being a blockbuster release that thousands of people will download, but using a maker DOES allow you to quickly see your RPG dreams come to some life which is something I shall not discourage.

 honookatana does make a valid point.  It would be much better to have a good game created from a maker than a crapily coded junky one.

But.. I also think, if you have to learn ANY amount of coding to USE an RPG maker, why not spend your time learning REAL coding instead.  That will benefit you a whole lot more than some made up language that applies to one application.

Lyrael , I'm fairly open as to what I except as being posted on the board.  You can use the board for talking about your RPG.  You should put a link to a page with some screenshots for us to see or maybe even a demo download.  I don't know how far along you are or when you started though, so you might not have enough.

[Lyrael]

Well, I don't really have enough for a demo just yet, though I am getting closer.  As for Screen Shots - I've got enough to do that and post sort of an intro, storyline, etc...but...

No hosting space - and since I absolutely DETEST the pop-up ads and adware that seem to go hand-in-hand w/most free hosts these days, am currently shopping around for some reasonably priced space to put up a page about the game.

Soon as I get one, I'll post a link here.  And thanks for not minding me talking about it here.  (Btw, that's NOT why I signed up for the forums - lol!)

As for coding - well, I totally understand and respect what you're saying - but trust me when I say I've tried - and while everyone can learn, we all have different apptitudes for different things.  I wrote my first "Hello World" program in C many years ago - and the process was sooooo difficult for me - not in grasping how to do it - but in retaining what I'd learned, that I sort of gave up on it.

I have, however, over the years done some MUD/MOO coding (if anyone here even knows what those are ;P).  But the truth of the matter is, while anyone can learn anything, I honestly believe all of us are better at some things than others, and coding comes toooo hard for me, to make it worth the years I'd have to invest in learning it to be good enough to create my own game.  It's like math - I've always been able to get through math classes with a c or b - but I've had to work harder for those b and c's than anything else I've tried to learn in my life - my brain just doesn't seem to function well w/ 0 and 1's ;p Or for that matter, how to break down a problem into an formula or algorithm.

But I certainly have a great deal of respect for those folks who do enjoy and excel at programming - respect and admiration for all the amazing things they can make my computer do!  

Lyrael

[TechMaster]

Actually Nightcrawler, there's some crazy people in the rpgmaker community that can make their game look like it's "not" from a maker program.  Some even apply extra coding that is not in the RM themselves. (although not a good example, some guy hacked his own game to make it so that people can't go into his game to change it and can only play it the way he sets it up)

Let's just say battle system wise.  Many many people makes their own battle system (known as CBS, custom battle system) which is quite difficult to program (since you're trying to do something wtih RM that it's "not" suppose to do but it can).  There's some crappy cbs out there and there's some amazing ones that even I'll have a jaw drop on.  I've seen one video of a cbs and far away it looked like it's a psx lvl battle system or something like that. (let's say, if you compared it with the FF battle system look, this CBS, by the looks, crushes any FF battle system before FF7, so that's FF1-6)  Whoever did that battle system got some awesome graphic skills that's for sure...

[Great Red Spirit]

Yeah, except games with all of the custom conent never get finished, and rarely get a real demo out (not some battle system demo )

As for the games with edit-proof protection... there's sometimes a way to get by it, and if there isn't, I don't play it (I play my games in the rm2k(3) editor, not directly through the executable)

[Lyrael]

As for the games with edit-proof protection... there's sometimes a way to get by it, and if there isn't, I don't play it (I play my games in the rm2k(3) editor, not directly through the executable)

Yeah, I prefer to play my games in in rm2k3 as well, mostly because of screen resolution issues.

But I've been pretty impressed with some of the games I've seen people create with it - they really don't look like "canned" duplicates of every other game.  Mine probably will feel a little like that, but I'm hoping the originality of the goals and storyline will make up for its more generic setting.

Maybe as I get more done on it some kind soul with artistic ability will volunteer to help me make it have more of an original flavor.  

Lyrael

[Gideon Zhi]

I'm not a huge fan of making RPGs. It's always seemed to me like, when trying to design one, that it just sort of... drags on. Like the gameplay is doesn't do anything for the story. I've come up with some fairly nifty ideas for game engines, but it always seemed like the gameplay gimmicks and the story gimmicks were really quite separate, like they didn't really belong together. I dunno, maybe it's just me...

To that effect, I prefer adventure games, like King's Quest or Shadowgate 64, as the gameplay flows almost naturally into the story, and vice versa. I don't have a problem with -translating- a well-done RPG, I just don't like making them

[Nightcrawler]

Yeah, except games with all of the custom conent never get finished, and rarely get a real demo out (not some battle system demo )

As for the games with edit-proof protection... there's sometimes a way to get by it, and if there isn't, I don't play it (I play my games in the rm2k(3) editor, not directly through the executable)

I agree.  And their edit protection is a joke and a waste of time.
It's like copy protection.  It will always be broken and hacked if it's worth it.

And I'm aware you can do custom coding and make the thing do more than it was intended for, but once you start doing that, you may as well start coding your own.

[TechMaster]

Just a little hint.

If you got a decent story going on, "don't" make your dungeons five km long and don't make it as a maze.  This is more on a personal level, but I find this problem especially on the later rpgs (this is also found on the SNES rpgs, such as the later parts of FF6) on the PSX and beyond (and espeically rpgs that has the "3d" dungeons that is very easy to get lost in).  If I try out a new rpg, most of the time I wouldn't want to read a walkthrough on it since it'll most likely spoil the game.

Basically, try to make a dungeon where it doesn't bother the flow of the storyline.  Don't try to "trap" the players in your dungeons.

[Myau23]

On that note, if you do decide to make long dungeons, at least have something to interact with there, like puzzles, and plenty of treasure. Having nothing to do but walk forward and fight gets pretty boring after a while.

[Great Red Spirit]

Actually, I'd prefer long dungeons over short dungeons if they have the same dungeon size:random encounter ratio. I'd rather clear one map for a huge dungeon and get in one battle then get in five fights on one map and have that dungeon 1/5th the size

Of course, huge mazes become a pain in the ass...

[Nightcrawler]

You bring up a good point about not having to consult a walkthrough.  I notice this becoming a bigger and bigger problem now a days with RPG's.  Many of them are becoming rediculous to finish on your own without consulting a walkthrough.  You should not have to consult a walkthrough to be able to figure out what to do next except on occasion.(to prevent games from becoming too straightforward and linear).  And you should be able to get through each dungeon without a walkthrough, however, finding all treasures and secrets etc.. should be allowed to be much more difficult.

I just find it very stupid that developers make the normal flow of a game so difficult you cannot get through it in even the most basic way by yourself.  There are plenty of games I played where I would have never guessed in a million years what was really required for me to do next.  The game gives you absolutely no hint as to what to do.  Again, I think that's ok for secrets and treasures, but to get through the game in the most basic way possible, it's stupid.  It detracts from gameplay.  Huge stupid mazes are the same.  No one wants to wonder around for  hours going in circles just walking and fighting.  If they did, they'd go play a randomly generated dungeon crawler

I definitely think if a dungeon is going to be long, it should have plenty of things to interact with along the way besides walking and fighting and give you some sort of hint on direction.  

However, I think there is definitely a line where if crossed will make the game too easy.  You can't tell the player everything every step of the way and you really don't want to make it soo linear that the player no longer feels involved.